binoculars

matuka · Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: binoculars

I forgot that "Elknuts Elk Camp" is just one section on a much larger Sage Creek Forum because I bookmarked just this section. I clicked sage creek forum index by accident and saw all the catagories for forum topics. I saw hunting equipment section and gear section, but I'm only interested really in what elk hunters think(especially bow hunters)....hmm is that bad?

Anyways I was telling Elknut that I want to upgrade one piece of equipment each year and this year its binoculars. I've been using some waterproof 8x42 bushnell H2O's $80 on a bino strap. I thought maybe spending $200-$300 was going to be a great upgrade, but after much research....that barely gets me a step out of the specs of the bushnells for $80. If thats the case is it worth spending a couple hundred more to get very little more in return? I don't do a lot of glassing, but I do use the binoculars in very low light, and to look through brush. I'm not really doing a lot of hillside glassing, mostly cause I'm in the woods without a lot of open areas to glass. I glass the brush looking through it for elk, and to find game trail or skid roads when I'm Lewis and Clark'n it and trying find my way out at times.

I say I'd like to upgrade one thing but I actually seem to buy many things prior to elk season its just part of getting ready...like I know I'm gonna buy the spot hogg wise guy release....so if I spend all my money on binoculars I can't buy all the little trinkets that are fun to buy. What would be a good compromise to still upgrade my binoculars cause they are just a tad too heavy to lug around.

IdahoBowHunter · Spike Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 15

All I can say is buy the best binoculars you can afford, its not an area you want to skimp in my opinion. I spent many years using cheap glass and did not realize what I was missing until my hunting buddy bought a pair of Swarovski EL 10X42 and after using them it was amazing what a difference they made. Now for me the EL's were out of my price range so after many hours of research and I settled on the Vortex Vipers. I tested them side by side with the EL's and they are not quite as good but very close and for nearly 1/4 of the money they were by far the best value.

Magic · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:31 am Post subject:

Good advice. Forget the trinkets even for a couple of years if necessary. Good bino's are a lifetime investment. So are your eyes. I've spent hours behind mine. You just can't do that with low quality ones.

I happen to have Zeiss Victorys that have since been discontinued. I would call Paul at Elknut, and talk with him. He is only a simple phone call away, and he will not steer you wrong. I am very pleased with the riflescope that he suggested and I bought from him. Smile

swede · Spike Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 36

I agree with Idahobowhunter. I have a pair of Elknut's Vortex Vipers. For only 1/4-1/3 the price of a pair of high end binos, I have a very good glass that does all I need it to. I do not spend hours on end glassing, but like to check things out. The Vipers are dandy even in very low light.

3scar · 2 point Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 135 Location: E. WA

If there is one piece of equipment to buy the best you can it is your binoculars. I bought a paif of the Leica Geovids several years back and though very expensive, I believe it is the best piece of hunting equipment I have purchased and take to the field, other than pre-season conditioning I have done in the gym to maximixe my time in the woods. Buy the best you can afford and you will happy that you did!

matuka · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject:

It must be true cause everything I have ever read says to buy the best you can afford. Maybe I don't glass that much also because I'm looking through crappy binoculars. Paul recommended the viper 10x32, even at 1/3 the price of high end I'm not sure if I can swing it...only budgeted about $300.

I've never looked through a pair of high end binoculars. I have the same philosophy with looking at guitars and mandolins, if I can't afford it don't even touch or play it....it will haunt you." Thou shall not covet thy neighbors binoculars".

Magic · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject:

Bite the bullet. If you haven't budgeted enough to get good binos, then wait until you have. Don't buy lesser ones. You'll still be in the same boat that you are in now.

FJager · 2 point Joined: 03 Jun 2009 Posts: 121 Location: Australia

Buy the best you can, save a bit longer.
I have been planning on buying a set of Swaro's, however last weekend I had the opportunity to try out a new model on the market, 'Wedgetails', made for an Australian company. I compared them to a set of Zeiss's in the field and ended up buying a pair, I was that impressed with the light gathering ability and edge to edge clarity, check out www.moroka30.com.au.

RosinBag · Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:50 am Post subject:

Matuka, I agree about buying the best you can afford and $300 is probably not going to get you better than what you have. I would save more and make a purchase you will be satisfied with when you do vs. making a purchase now and still wanting a better optic. Also, look at eBay all the time. I have bought and sold several pairs of high end optics on their at a reasonable price. Cabela's Bargain Basement is another place to keep an eye on. The Bargain Basement are returns from customers purchase for the most part that are then re-sold at a discounted rate. You never know what kind of deal you can get.

Hobbes · 2 point Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 57 Location: Colorado

I've been using a pair of 10x 42 Bushnell Legends since 1999 that cost me $319. I don't know how they compare to the current model, but I'm quite sure they are better glass than the H20s and would be a noticeable difference if you look through them much. I know my son has a pair that are similar to the model you mention and they make my head hurt within seconds.

However................I dropped my Legends out of my truck onto the pavement. Actually I drug them out of my truck and they fell because I didn't realize the bino harness had hooked onto something I was unloading. It wasn't a gentle drop and it definitely broke or moved something inside, so I'm in the market again to pick up a pair of binos.

This was not an expense I had planned on. I do not have the ability to buy Swaro's or anything in their class. I'm sure over the next couple years I could put back cash and pay for a pair, but I need binos now. I'm not opposed to investing in binos of that quality, but can not pay for them unless I have a rich uncle die and leave me some money. (I don't have any rich uncles) I have a budget of $300 max......period. I have not had a chance to look through them, but I'm considering checking out a pair of ZenRay Summits and I think they are less than 300.

I realize that the Swaro crowd often feels the need to point out how foolish I am to not skip one Pepsi a day for x number of days or something of the sort and seem extremely upset that I don't have their exact priorities, but I can live with that too.

Conrad8899 · Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject:

Check out camraland ny. Thay have sum really good deals on there. Check out the minox sale....

Malloy805 · Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject:

Check this place out.Samples and demos.The Minox are a bargain, they'er a sister company of Lica. My big eyes are a pair of Minox 15x56 and I'm very happy with them .

http://www.cameralandny.com/

matuka · Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject:

I hear ya Hobbes...bushnell is pretty good about replacing even if your the reason they are broke. I've been looking online for a week or so every night as I watch tv looking for good binoculars in the $300 range. Eagle optics had pretty good customer opinions on them. I'm sure there is a more than acceptable pair of binoculars out there for $300...if not, some company should make some and make millions off the budget limited. There is no doubt that hunting can be expensive at times. With all the stuff I've bought for hunting my first elk(only elk) cost about $700 a pound and climbing. Shocked

Malloy805 · Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject:

Sorry conrad, Laughing

I don't know how I missed your post! fighting0029

matuka · Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject:

Well I decided to bite the bullet and up my budget to the $700 range. I've considered the viper and the razor line of vortex. They get great customer reviews and their warranty is awesome. I guess thats the perk of owning your own business....bust butt a little harder and you can make extra money.

Now...committing on a size! No size is perfect, so what is the size you like to hunt with and give me the pro's and con's of that size.

Magic · Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:17 am Post subject:

GOOD FOR YOU !!!

Personally, I use a discontinued Zeiss Victory 8X30 and the Magicwoman's are Zeiss Conquest 10X30. Sure the 30's reduces the "light gathering" ability, but it also reduces size and weight. Both are less than 16 oz. and that makes quite a bit of difference around your neck.

It would be advisable to actually be able to handle and look through various units before making a final decision. Good luck and keep us posted.

Arrowslinger · Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:14 am Post subject:

I think 10x42's are the standard & best bino's for western hunting.

Malloy805 · Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:36 am Post subject:

8x42 here . no problems with weight, this is how I carry them;
http://www.alaskaguidecreations.com/binopack.htm

Hobbes · 2 point Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 57 Location: Colorado

I like a 10x42. 8 would probably be fine if your in heavy timber all the time, but if you have the chance to glass distant drainages or openings you'll be glad you have the 10x's

WW · Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject:

Glad to see you upped your budget. I started out with cheapo $70 glasses years ago. Then I went to some $300 dollar ones. But not until I got my Vortex Vipers, was I truly satisfied.

I have compared my Vipers side beside the $2000 Swaros and for the price difference, I'll go to the Vipers every time.

And for western hunting I second the statement that 10x42 sets the standard.

matuka · Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:47 am Post subject:

The internet can be a very cool place to look things up on. BUT it sure can make you second guess an expensive purchase. At $700 there are many more great binoculars and brands that I have never even heard of before. Prior to a year ago I only knew Bushnell and Nikon. I'm gonna do my best to not impulse buy....I'm still trying to educate myself on whats important on binoculars. I still don't see what the difference really is between the vortex vipers vs. the razors except for one extra coating of something. Do I really need more than vipers? Then there is Stieners....website makes them seem like the best. Then theres Zeiss, Zen, Pentax, Lieca, Leupold, Minox, Burris, Eagle optics, windriver....etc

I'm not sure why 10x42 from different companies have such different FOV. What is the acceptable exit pupil size? I'm use to carrying the 29oz binoculars with really no problem but thought I could go lighter if I went more expensive but it looks like it would weigh the sameish.

Then also there are some very nice binoculars with range finders in them that would be a big improvement of my optics and eliminate the need to carry my rangefinder..........

FJager · 2 point Joined: 03 Jun 2009 Posts: 121 Location: Australia

Out of the same model bino, the 8x will always be brighter than the 10x, the physics of light transmission I guess. I prefer 10x's for the country I hunt the most, however I recently had the chance to try 2 exactly the same models out in each power, I ended up going with the 8x.

A number of the models in your renewed price bracket will provide quality in either power though, doesn't make it easy does it. lol

Matt Palmquist · 6 point Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 621 Location: Kansas

Increasing your budget is a wise decision in my opinion, but it now opens up many more possibilities. If you are wanting to research try places like:

www.birdforum.net
www.opticstalk.com
www.monstermuleys.com Optics Forum

And you can always use google.

As far as size go, I think you have already got some great advice from the others. If you aren't glassing long distances go with the 8x. I have 10x, but I may be better off with the 8 even for long range due to not holding as steady. You will notice movement much more in the 10x.

You will read some great reviews on the Zen Ray ED2. I have not used them to give you much help, but everything I read sounds positive. I am sure they are not as good as Leica, Swaro, or Zeiss, but at a fraction of the cost I don't think people should expect them to be. With that said, they must be pretty good, because you hear the comparisons all of the time.

I have some Pentax SP10x43 and have had good luck with them. I like the feel, and they have a great warranty with good glass. The ED model intrigues me, but they are getting up there in price. They are good, but they don't compare to my Leica Ultravids.

WW brings up a good point though on price. When I first jumped up to Leicas and would compare them side by side with the Pentax I thought they were quite comparable. I didn't grasp the difference until I put the pentax away for a few weeks and just used the Leica. When I picked up the pentax again I couldn't believe I thought they were in the same league. However, are the benefits worth the difference in cost? That is debateable.

I will quite rambling:) I think if you move up into the $400-700 range you will be happy with any decision you make.

Good Luck,
Matt

3scar · 2 point Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 135 Location: E. WA

If your seriously considering one unit for both binos and rangefinder, you can't go wrong in purchasing the Leica Geovid 10x42's. I bought these 4 yrs ago and have never looked back. Yes pricey, but having an excellent bino and rangefinder all in one unit is a BIG plus!

Malloy805 · Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:39 am Post subject:

Binocular basics
http://www.chuckhawks.com/binocular_basics.htm

A quick explanation of exit pupil

Guide to Binocular Exit Pupil

Exit Pupil BinocularIf you divide the objective lens diameter by the magnification, you will get a number approximately between 4 and 8. This number is called the exit pupil, and represents the diameter of the beam of light that leaves the eyepiece when you hold a binocular with the objective pointed towards a light source. For example, a 7x50 binocular has an exit pupil of 50 divided by 7, just over 7 millimeters in diameter. Exit pupil also describes the image that's projected to a particular point in space.

Your eyes must be positioned at that exact spot in order for you to see the full field-of-view with maximum resolution. When holding the binoculars at arm's length, it's the small, circular image that's visible in each eyepiece lens. When your eyes are in the proper viewing position, the round shafts of light combine to create a fully detailed sight picture.

There are some other factors to consider when discussing exit pupil. As we grow older, the maximum dilation of our eye pupil diameter slowly decreases in size from about 7 or 8mm at age 20 to about 5mm at age 50. Of course, there will be some individual variation in these figures due to hereditary or environmental factors, but it's worth noting this physiological phenomenon as it relates to exit pupil size and in choosing the binocular that best meets your needs.

Another consideration is whether or not there will be any observing done under conditions that would not allow you to hold the binoculars steady, such as on the deck of a boat. Here is a situation where a large exit pupil is very useful, even for the daylight-adapted eye, because it is much easier to keep the smaller eye pupil centered in the larger exit pupil when the binoculars are difficult to hold steady.