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What about water????
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mnducker
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Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:01 am    Post subject: What about water???? Reply with quote

After intense reading and discussions, I have decided on a Jetboil and Mountain House to bring in with me, also I'm a big guy so I'm going with the North Face Big B bag, but have been wondering about water. Since I don't plan on hauling in water with me, what do you do to make sure the water is drinkable and ok to use in cooking???
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Arrowslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use and prefer iodine or chlorine tabs....but many guys prefer a pump/filter. I'd suggest buying some of the tabs and trying them out at home first, the iodine can be a bit much for some folks, so give it a try and see what you prefer.........then think about what's going to be the easiest, quickest, and most effective for ya in the field.
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ray porter
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you choose a filter be sure to carry tabs for a backup. filters can and do quit. choosing a filter is like choosing a stove. lots to choose from and they all work some better or whatever than others. the iodine taste killing pills work. i used them last yr on a guy that just could not stand the taste of iodine. he drank the water for 2 days and never knew till i told him.
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WillyP
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some things to think about:

As said above. What is your level of "off" taste you can put up with.

What is in the water you can strain out through a bandanna, etc.

What is in the water as far as needing to be neutralized.

What is your education level as far as chemically how LONG it takes for chemical X to kill the things it kills at the lowest temperature level you should experience and how long will that take. It differs from chemical to chemical and takes longer as the temperature goes lower.

Filters don't take everything out! Chemicals don't kill everything! Some water tastes like crap even before you do anything to it. There are balances involved IMO.

It's personal preference! I use a Hiker filter with a Pro Hiker kit added to it and I take a few coffee filters to put over the prefilter to help eliminate a clog that would cause me to have to break the filter down and clean it in the field as opposed to cleaning it either in base camp or when I get home and sterilize the filter after the trip. OH Yeah there is after trip maintenance to a filter. I prefer one with carbon in the element to take taste out of the water so IF I am backpacking a place I need to worry about virus' I can use bleach in the water and then filter out that taste and intestinal worm eggs that chemicals don't touch. That is not the case where I hunt. There I just filter and high enough up I might be tempted to use the chlorine dioxides but I refuse to use iodine any longer. There are temps it does not work in even with a 4 hour wait ! If you use chemicals remember to slosh some on the threads and cap of the water container to kill "bugs" there from filling it!!!!!!!. Clean your hands properly no matter what method you use and think about the order you handle things in to keep treated water clean from cross contamination!

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pointblank
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Willyp, There are alot of things to consider and you covered them very well.

This year for short , light trips , I am going to try an Aquamire frontier pro This filter screws right on a water bottle or my small platypus bag, they say you can drink right out of a stream with it using the straw but I dont recommend this due to it does'nt let you treat with chemical.

I have had beaver fever twice and it is no fun, once due to not washing hands as willyp stated, this is very inportant.

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WillyP
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="pointblank]
This year for short , light trips , I am going to try an Aquamire frontier pro This filter screws right on a water bottle or my small platypus bag, they say you can drink right out of a stream with it using the straw but I dont recommend this due to it does'nt let you treat with chemical.
[/quote]

I am feeling for you on the beaver fever! We had a guy sick years ago, after we got back home BTW, and it was due to putting the "dirty" and "clean" hoses in the same bag with the filter and not separating them!

Hey you know Sawyer makes a little filter element you can put inline on your platty? The MSR newer inline will do that also, if I understand what I have seen/read. Both are the newer "thread" filters with no carbon for chemicals or taste though. I was headed that way till I looked deeper into clogging issues with them and no carbon element. Honestly my backcountry water tastes WAY better than tap water here at home.

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pointblank
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Aquamira because I can add chlorine drops to the "dirty bottle then add the filter to the dirty bottle turn it upside down add let gravity do the rest.
It is small and compact. here is a link http://aquamira.com/consumer/frontier-pro-filter-system/product-technology

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WillyP
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointblank that is a very impressive setup! Small, carbon section, replaceable prefilter disks, small, light, did I mention it's impressively small........ You have a pretty nice setup! It's sort of like what I thought the MSR/Platty gravity setup was going to be.

I have a question. How much backflushing to you do or are supposed to do with it, if any??

I am going to look at that some more!

Fill me in on your platty bags. Widemouths ??? Water tankers??? Plain old 2 litres??

mnducker this is a system worth putting on a short list, IMO.

I have yet to see anything about rather freezing will break the element inside letting "things" by. Any info on that ? I have beeen known to boil and sleep with my water bottles at night to keep them from freezing in extended cold conditions so sleeping with that little filter might be an option I could live with.

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TJ
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another option you may want to look into are chlorine dioxide solutions. I've used the Aquamira drops and found them to work OK. No taste that I could tell. With the aquamira you have to mix a two part solution and wait five minutes before putting into your water. Wait another fifteen minutes before drinking!

You may also look into a product called Klearwater, www.klearwater.com. It to, is a chlorine dioxide solution, however this one does not reguire mixing. I think that I will give this a try also. According to their website it kills viruses almost immediately and pathogens within fifteen to thirty minutes. Also states that water temperatures have little effect on its performance.

Good luck

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yoter
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a Steripen. It is lighter than most any filter and I can have a bottle full of water ready to drink in 90 seconds, no pumping and no waiting for tablets to do their thing. It uses UV light to kill everything in the water. That said, I do pack tablets as a backup, because just like everything else, it can break or fail. I have never had any issues with it to this point, and I find that because it is so quick and easy, I tend to drink more because it is not as much of an ordeal to fill up my water supply.

Just another option to consider.
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Zbearclaw
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As important as how you make the water safe, is how you transport it.

I have busted camelbacks and one playtpus, so I use the MSR Dromedary lite 3L. I have literally fallen directly on the thing many times, as well as fallen with it in my pack as well. I have been toting a 6L MSR Dromedary for spike camp use. I hike in with the 3L full and fill up close to my first spike location with the others, toss in the pills and get to my glassing location.

Potable-Aqua works for me. Thus far no problems, and is plenty light.

I have considered the MSR Sweetwater setup, but keep asking myself why, at least for where I am currently hunting.

If the water is questionable looking I let Arrowslinger drink first, and then I follow suit if he doesn't start blowing out of both ends!

Speaking of AS, he had two little roll up platypus reservoirs for camp storage as well as drink mixes that were pretty cool, super light and the 1L was perfect to toss in gatorade without worrying about gunk growing in the main res that stays in the pack.

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saddlesore
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I go with two of those 5 gal collapsible water bags. I have a First Need Filter cannister that I rig up with tygon hose.I hang one 5 gal bag from water with the creek water and the let gravity take care of letting the water through the filter.'

For pre filter I buy several see thru automotrive in line fuel filters .Proir to use I wash them out with ethanol ( not methanol) These, I put in the line between the hanging bag and the filter cannister.

When it gets extremely cold,the filter cannister goes inside my sleeping bag .
I have use this type of setup fro about25+ years and haev had no problems.The nice thing about it is that you have water for dish washing, person washing, drinking and cooking and you never have to worry about what is in your water or do you have enough water.Set it up before you leave camp in the AM and you have 5 gal when you get back, or ste it up when you ge tback to camp at night and you have 5 gal in the AM

The trouble with those little filter bottles is thet you tend to not drink enough. Dehydration is a big problem in the high country and many flat landers would do well to drink more water than normal to combat altitude sickness.

I carry purification tablets with me always ,but have not used any in probably twenty years.

If you select a filter system rated for Giardia, it will take care of just about any other problems you encounter

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Aug
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used several hand pump filters (MSR, Katadyne.....) in the past and they work great. But one thing always bugged me about them. The pumping.

Last year I decided to look for something different. I came across a "gravity" filtration system that uses a katadyn filter. First time I used it I was on a hike in fishing trip. I walked up to the creek bank where my buddies were pumping water, filled up the water bag, primed it, plugged into my camel back and walked away to go fishing. I came back a half hour later and noticed 4 full camel backs and a bunch of full bottles of water. My friends had all put their filters down and plugged into mine. Love this system!

You can make these very easily and for cheap.

I also bring along a small bottle of iodine tabs incase the filter fails...(which I have done for every filter I've used).

http://www.ula-equipment.com/amigo.htm


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Bluewine
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yoter wrote:
I use a Steripen. It is lighter than most any filter and I can have a bottle full of water ready to drink in 90 seconds, no pumping and no waiting for tablets to do their thing. It uses UV light to kill everything in the water. That said, I do pack tablets as a backup, because just like everything else, it can break or fail. I have never had any issues with it to this point, and I find that because it is so quick and easy, I tend to drink more because it is not as much of an ordeal to fill up my water supply.

Just another option to consider.

Second this one...
I bring a coffee filter too to deal with large particulate.
Most CO back country streams are pretty damn clean to begin with..so getting the bugs out is my priority, not solids.
Just My opinion.
Love the Steripen.
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pointblank
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WillyP, Here are a few pics of my setup.

I just set it up in the shop on my Grizz. I carry one on my atv also.

1. Use a "dirty bag" to collect water
2. Add Micropur tablet to dirty bag.
3. Hang dirty bag from whatever to gravity fill bottle or pots.
4. you can drink right from the dirty bag if you put the bite valve back on.

This setup rolls up very small with a dirty bag, a scoop bag to fill the dirty bag, ( I prefer not to submerge the dirty bag but you can if you want) a clean bag for drinking straight out of, and small bottle for the Micropur tablets.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject: kit Reply with quote

Here is the stored filter kit
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pointblank
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a search on the Steripens and found some reviews of failures.
As for me I prefer not to have an electronic device that need batteries, that can go dead

There is alot of info here for you to thread thru, hope we did not confuse you but what ever method you go with take it out find some dirty stream somewhere and try it before you trust it.

Good luck, PB

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WillyP
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I set a Frontier Pro system up due to you PointBlank. I LIKE it a lot. Our group used it on a trip to Mount Sterling N.C. It worked perfectly for 4 of us on the 3 day two nighter. I used a 4L Platy Water Tank for a dirty bag and filled different water bladders etc. I used the Aqua Mira drops in the dirty bag first to kill off virus' etc and then ran that water through the filter for intestinal worms and other critters and to take the taste out. It was VERY light and worked excellent on Smoky Mtn water that I do not trust due to all the folks and pack stock in the area we were in. 4 weeks and my insides are still working great Smile Thanks for the heads up on the system. The only down side I would see is when you are getting water out of "cow tracks" and it is hard to fill the dirty bag.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you cut a platy bag half way down the bag at a diagonal angle you can make a pretty sturdy scoop bag to fill the dirty bag.

Glad the setup worked well for you. I to really like it because you can add the chemical then filter the taste out.

I guess then decision about how to deal with water boils down to:

1 Do I want to have water fast whenever I find it, then I pack a pump, as long as I dont mind the extra wieght. Or

2. I know I will have time to cure and gravity the water, knowing I dont want to pack the pump.

Either way is a good way It is just a preference to me to have the smaller system. The great thing about the MP1 Tablets are they are a complete purifier as long as you prescreen the water thru a bandana and then wiat the 4 hours for cure time., so even if the Frontier pro were to plug I can still get water.

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WillyP
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pills or chemicals work on everything but the intestinal worms like tape, etc. the shells are too thick for the chemicals to get to the organism inside so the filter takes it out. Otherwise it is boil to get rid of them.

As far as scooping I figure I am boiling water for the meal so I could use my Ti mug as long as I put the heat to it first before drinking out of it. I do like the half platy though. I also need to rig my water tank to hang upside down as opposed to putting it in a tree fork. Some day that might not be an option I guess. Did you melt you holes in the platy or hole punch them ??

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used a hole punch to make the holes.

Micropur tabs are said to be able to get thru the hard shell critters but you do need to wait 4 hours. I Emailed this ? and they responded with this:


Micropur tablets treat more than a filter would so it is not necessary
to use a filter. Some people choose to use a filter first to cut the
processing time down. This is because Crypto needs time to process
through the hard shell (iodine would never be able to get through it).
Crypto cannot pass through Katadyn's filters.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got back from Hells Canyon trip We had an MSR hyper flow in camp and it worked for 2 days then got really hard to pump. He tried back flushing but it didn't help much.
So I used the Micropur tabs and gravity to speed up the cure time.

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WillyP
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You talked me into the same system but I used a larger "dirty" bag and put a hose on mine for more fall/pressure. Here it is on the way up Mt. Sterling in NC. It's behind the dome tent near my daughter.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willy I am going to add a hose on mine to that gives it more versatility, great idea.
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WillyP
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sprang for the Platy clean stream hose kit with the shut off but if you could get an IV clip you could go the cheap route. I dump in the Aqua Mira and let it set and then fill everything after dinner or in the morning before leaving. All the head the hose gives it it seems to really flow out fast into whatever is being filled.
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