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Aim Where on ELK ???
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westaner
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know where I got this photo.
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westaner
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this front shot is small!
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WW
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Westaners photo says it all, straight up the front leg and just above the elbow!!!!!!!!!!!
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Magic
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks westaner, Your photo verifys that an elk's "living quarters" are a bit higher and a bit further back than a deer. I also had read this in a hunting mag recently. Don't remember which one.

Yours' is a very valid illustration.

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GregE
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually that photo is the vitals from a Pronghorn that has the ribs cut away. It has been also has been enlarged and placed over an ELK picture by BB. I'll post the other pics of that soon but first lets look at the skeleton. Wink

In both the deer and elk the fore leg goes forward to meet the shoulder blade ( scapula) at an angle. Tha forms an area called the V or Triangle that is indeed straight up from the front leg. Now look at where the pulmanary artery and vein and aorta and vena cava come into the heart right at the forward angle of the V. in the next post:

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Last edited by GregE on Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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GregE
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you draw a line 1/3 up from the bottom and intersect the extension up fromt he front leeg ( assuming it is straight up and down) You are in the middle of the largest concentration of large blood vessels in the body.

The red spot on the top cow ELK is the commonly accepted spot and will kill quickly. BUt it's near the back third of the lungs where the vessels are smaller. Check out the superimposed picture of the ELK.

What do you think???

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matuka
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great pictures...very helpful......and a new perspective for me.
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GregE
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare this chart of the circulatory system with the skeleton one. Notice how the heart is protected by the leg bones- this is true of most four legged critters.




Realizing that few critters give us a true broadside shot opportunity we know that the McKenzie 3D target rings actually train us wrong when it comes to shots at an angle- quartering to/ from and up/ down hill angles.

What do you use to aim at on a shot like this?


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blderman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I marked two spots, can't decide which one I like better. The shot is downhill so I would definitely be aiming slightly higher than normal. Also it appears that he is slightly quartering away so I am tempted to stay back from the "pocket" just a touch.
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GregE
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another ELK skeleton picture from the Smithsonian.


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ElkRub
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is yet another perspective.
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GregE
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the new Bowhunter Ed charts. Cool
Notice there isn't much distance from the 'behiind the crease' point to the paunch.

How about a steep quartering away angle? Aim where?


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sticker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep posting these GregE I'm learning a lot from them.
You probably don't want my input since I'm rifle hunting and I've never taken an elk. At this point now for me I would shoot where I know he's going down. I hate to waste meat but this is my 3rd year and I have to take an elk home or drastically change my tactics.
As soon as I get an elk I'll switch to bow hunting but as a beginner I gotta start with a rifle.
I'd shoot for the heart but I don't have to be as careful as bow hunters.
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sticker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a bow I'd shoot just a tad further back.

What do you pro's say?
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GregE
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sticker, glad you like it. I learn something every time i read similar threads.

To me your rifle shot is above the heart and will only hit one lung. If you break the shoulder you may put that bull down. Your thoughts on the bow shot are good- where would you put the arrow?

Lets see what others add. Wink

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deweymn
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW! Great stuff guys, for a newbie this is great.
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oneElkaholic
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Joined: 03 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi guys, i have been reading this forum for a couple months but this is my first post.this site and the wisdom on it is great.i have been making the journey west to hunt elk for almost 20 years.that being said,i would take that shot but i would also make sure i gave him plenty of time[2 to 3 hours] and space after the shot.only going to get 1 lung and if you dont get his heart also he can be a tough critter. great thread!
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GregE
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just carrying on a good idea that impressed me several years ago BB has made a point of sharing his knowledge on the Bowsite- I know a lot of folks don't go there so wanted to expand the audience.

I too used to use the behind the crease 1/3 up aim pint and took a lot of animals. Occasionally I had one that need considerable tracking when I "hit a little far back." ( you notice how many times you hear that phrase in the hunting videos? ) Rolling Eyes

I hit a bull in the scapula many years ago. He had circled under my tree stand and was slightly quartering to me 15 yards away. At the shot he was turning and gathering his legs to take off. The arrow penetrated about 6" ( 555 gr 2315 with 125 gr Thunderhead shot from a 66# Hoyt Provantage- about 210 FPS) I watched the ELK walk off with my shaft sticking out and didn't have a 2nd shot opportunity. After 30 minutes I quietly checked for blood and found NONE. Waiting an hour I slowly walked down the trail he came in figuring he would take the same route back.

156 paces later I found blood then scuff marks and my bull. The TH BH had punched a neat hole through the shoulder blade and had cut the brachial artery that goes to the foreleg. I was lucky on several things. I started shooting to avoid bone and ended up with several liver hits some with paunch.

Now knowing the anatomy better I'm going for the V whenever possible.

Here's are a couple shots that show the bones quite clearly ( plus some bunched muscle below the scapula)





And from the other side- nicely broadside and stretched out.





Now, how about those quartering shots?

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Magic
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oneElkaholic, Welcome to SC Forums. As you have already found out....this as a great site..... Laughing
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oneElkaholic
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you magic! this is the most intelligent forum i have been on.it is nice to read that kind of stuff.
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GregE
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow up to the moose anatomy


A couple clearly outlined scapula







Most 4 lergged critters are built on the same pattern. Bears due to their blocky chest have the lungs and heart further back than a deer.

How are we doing? Wink

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Magic
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg, why on earth is the "gut dot" green Question Question Question Laughing Laughing Laughing
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GregE
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Greg, why on earth is the "gut dot" green


We are what we eat........... Rolling Eyes
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Magic
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soooo true.... Laughing
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DavidO
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Joined: 16 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am new around here and getting ready for an diy archery elk hunt in Sept. I hope to kill my first elk, I went two years ago and saw plenty but it got hot and they disappeared.

This is a great forum as a learning tool!

This thread is very informative!

I didn't realize that I could shoot this far forward on an elk.

Thanks guys Smile
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